The World Famous Frawley Castle Website

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The WFFCW was created August 5, 2001 :: we're 17 YEARS OLD!

WFFCW hits since April, 2003

"It's like a nightmare, isn't it?  It just keeps getting worse and worse." .... Keith McCready, in "The Color of Money"

"The only vaccine powerful enough to inoculate you from lies is the truth." .... Al Franken, famous author

WFFCW Quote Of The Second

WHAT IS THIS WEBSITE ABOUT?  Some of this is a personal website containing REBUTTAL, REPLY, and COMMENT to (primarily) public statements and accusations made by various self proclaimed "internet dog training experts".  The majority of the statements and accusations are FALSE, and refer to me, personally.  The nucleus of this website is based on verbatim quotes of public messages, most of which are archived with their respective lists.  Unless noted, nothing has been altered, other than formatting line length to screen width and changing the font style.  Other parts of this site contain OPINIONS, HUMOR, PARODY, COMEDY, and SARCASM which reflect my own personal sense of humor and viewpoints.  The First Amendment of the Constitution adequately, particularly, and specifically provides these rights.  This site is for educational and entertainment purposes.  This is emphatically not a "hate" site.  There is no hate, and never was.  Profanity is kept to a minimum, but it does exist.  If this website seems offensive to you, in any way, please leave now.  Please do not subject yourself to being offended.

TO THOSE IN FEAR OF THIS WEBSITE:  Websites can be terrifying places.  If you're afraid, we'll never understand why, but what can WE do?  You're allowed to be frightened of webpages, or anything else.  This website contains NO THREATS of any nature - no direct, indirect, implied, supplied, or personified threats - it never did and never will.  There is a lot of SARCASM here.  If you're afraid, our heart goes out to you - we don't WANT you to be afraid.  We want you to get help.  Dial 911, and scream for help.  If you wind up in a straight jacket, that's your problem.  If you don't, that's your problem, too.

COPYRIGHT © is clearly acknowledged where, when, and if applicable.  It's even acknowledged where it's not applicableThe USCO website.  This link contains verbatim United States Copyright Law, which clearly allows for rebuttal, comment, criticism, etc.  United States Copyright Law specifically states "COPYRIGHT DOES NOT APPLY TO FACTUAL INFORMATION".  (Read the law - see for yourself.)  Rebutting falsified "factual information" is not a violation of copyright law.



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Author Topic: Leerburg discussion on LiveJournal
Charline Touchard
Junior Member
Member # 5488

Rate Member
I have an online journal at, and I also participate in a few communities over there too. Today, someone posted in the "germanshepherds" community asking about Leerburg, and sparked a lively discussion. If anyone has any interest, here's the link:

(psst...don't tell 'em I sent ya...I don't want to get blamed if any flame wars start up.)

**I'm "VTLadyhawke" over there, if anyone's interested. [Smile]

"Save a horse, ride a cowboy!"

~Big n' Rich

Posts: 4 | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged |  << HEY!  The IP address is LOGGED! 
Will Rambeau
Member # 2811

Member Rated:
I took a look at the thread.... [Roll Eyes]

Here on the Leerburg forum, people can't hide their opinions behind an anonymous name - they have to have the balls to post their question, view, or idea right out in the open, and it's open to all for debate. Different views and ideas can be examined, and you can determine their worth a whole lot easier than the good ol' "anonymous" post. A poster can post what they know and back up their view with experience and facts...or they can post as "anonymous" on other boards and impotently snipe at a breeder who has spent a ton of time and effort to educate people. It sounds a lot like jealousy from where I sit.
Charline, let me know when the un-named posters that feel compelled to insult Ed have their own 3500 page website full of training info up, OK? [Big Grin]

Flame wars with cowards that hide behind the internet is none too satisfying.... [Wink]


"Victims....aren't we all?"
Eric Dravin from the movie "The Crow"

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Old earth dog Bob Scott
Member # 1761

Member Rated:
[Big Grin] Ain't it amazing what success can do to the people that cant reach it!! [Big Grin] [Wink]

old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks

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Brian Jackson
Member # 4726

Member Rated:

Here here! [Big Grin]
Posts: 57 | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged |  << HEY!  The IP address is LOGGED! 
Rudy Bunt
Member # 3933

I think some people can not deal with a person who is straight to the point. I personally find it refreshing. In an industry where there are so many Bullshit artists. Just do a search on German shepherd, how many hits do you get and each and everyone of them says the same S**T, I have been breading for Blah... Blah.... I have Blah... years with the dogs Blah....Blah.... Not that I do not think there aren't good breeders out there but how many would you personally recommend? I personally love the way he is straight and to the point.

*Just one opinion*

"Meine Ehre Heisst Treue"
(My Honor is Loyalty)

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Alan Bliven
Member # 3415

Whenever one is the king of the hill, all the other boys try and knock him off!

Best Friend German Shepherds

Posts: 83 | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged |  << HEY!  The IP address is LOGGED! 
Naa-Dei Nikoi
Member # 1678

A slightly different point of view:

You know how funny it can be to call your dog awful names in a lovely tone and watch them wag their tails? It occurs to me that people aren't all that much smarter. The way I see it, the thing that tact achieves that rudeness doesn't is that it stops people from blocking off unwelcome information. Being blunt is nice if you're the speaker (or someone who agrees with the speaker) but then someone can go 'oh you're just rude' and not listen to what they need to hear, whereas the same thing said politely will go in whether they want it to or not. In any case, it's clear that the people talking don't have the slightest clue of what they're talking about: Ed doesn't advocate hard corrections as means of teaching dogs (neither does Koehler when you come down to it) but as a means of enforcing well-understood and fairly-given commands if that is what the dog needs.

I do think that if more of the knowledgable trainers worked on their communication and abrasiveness, they'd put out of business a lot of the smooth-tongued treat-or-kill scam artists (oh, I'm sorry, I mean the 'give your dog a cookie and when he decides he'd rather take a piece out of your little niece/ won't stop yanking you down the street/ won't give you the time of day/ knocks your old mother down/ etc, give him a tastier treat and if he does it anyway that means he's a defective dog and must be put down').

Just my two cents,


"The plural of anecdote is not data."
-- Stephen Budiansky.

Posts: 75 | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged |  << HEY!  The IP address is LOGGED! 
Tim Leigh
Member # 5308

Member Rated:
Has anybody heard of the muppet Steve Leigh ( I promise hes no relation to myself)

This person seems intent on bringing the big man down

Even has his own website

This person seems like a complete nob head.

Anybody had experience with this fool?

Posts: 30 | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged |  << HEY!  The IP address is LOGGED! 
patricia powers
Member # 3595

Member Rated:
i think i was happier not knowing about this $hi+. [Frown]

if there are no dogs in heaven, then when i die i want to go where they went. ---will rogers

Posts: 183 | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged |  << HEY!  The IP address is LOGGED! 
Lou Castle
Member # 131

Member Rated:
Tim Leigh wrote: Has anybody heard of the muppet Steve Leigh ( I promise hes no relation to myself) This person seems like a complete nob head. Anybody had experience with this fool?

LC: I'm proud to say that I've had experience with Mr. Leigh. Although your characterizations of him as a "muppet" and a "nob head" are much too kind. Look around on his website and you'll find MANY more comments made about me than about Ed. Leigh also attacks Donn Yarnall on the same site.

LC: Mr. Leigh is a deeply disturbed person. A quick look at the section of his website where he tells people of his very detailed plans for suicide will reveal that. Even without that someone who maintains a website of that size to criticize three people he's never even met is a stalker at best and a psychotic at worst.

LC: I'll let Ed tell you of his history with Mr. Leigh but as for me . . . We disagreed on several forums years back, beginning, I think it was on the PDL (Protection Dogs List). We argued about drives and Ecollars. At one point he asked for my credentials which I presented and then I asked for his. He refused to present any for quite some time, saying that he wasn't required to show me anything. This continued until he realized that his credibility was being placed in doubt. He then presented some vague comments about having trained and titled "many dogs" in AKC obedience, SchH and Ring Sport. He also made references to having trained and supplied dogs to "many" police departments. I asked for specifics, the names of some dogs that he'd titled and references from some PD's that he'd supplied dogs for. I think it's reasonable that someone making those claims would be PROUD to supply that information; yet Mr. Leigh steadfastly refused. When I pointed out to him that in the face of such a refusal it was reasonable to believe that he wasn't being honest, he began personal attacks including name calling, general rudeness and profanity. He was finally thrown off that list.

LC: But that wasn't enough for him! He showed up on another list I was on and began the debates all over again. They went exactly the same way. We'd disagree and state our positions, he ask for my credentials, which I'd provide and then I'd ask for his. He'd refuse and then finally supply them but with no details. I'd ask for specifics and he'd go to personal attacks. This occurred on about half a dozen more lists, each discussion going nearly identically. Each of them culminating in the same flaming and with the result that he'd be thrown off the list. I felt that we could have cut and pasted our earlier comments to the "new" discussions. Finally he ran out of lists to repeat this process.

LC: He then began a private email war with me. There he went to profanity and name calling immediately. I'm an eternal optimist and thought that if I could just get him to listen to reason he'd calm down and we could have a decent conversation. I'm also an idiot to have thought this. For several weeks we exchanged emails until finally I grew tired of the name calling and responded in kind. After asking him several times to stop bothering me, I had to block his email address to stop his insanity. But he just changed it and sent me another email. I blocked that email address and he again changed it to get his email through. This continued until I'd blocked six of his email names. I finally had to block his entire domain to get him to stop.

LC: A few years back his wife passed away. I learned of it about a year afterwards and in spite of our history, sent him a brief sympathy note. I unblocked his addresses and domain to allow him to respond if he cared to; the optimist/idiot in me again. He wasn't even man enough to acknowledge it. But a short while ago he did start sending me rude emails again. Up went the blocks again.

LC: And so he retreated to his website where he can write whatever he wants with absolutely no one disagreeing or correcting him. He hasn't shown up on any public lists for a debate since, even though I've invited him numerous times.

LC: I believe that he's mentally unbalanced and that he needs medication. At times he goes off for no apparent reason. Out of the clear blue sky he'll email me and tell me to go look at his website as he has a couple of times. (For some reason when I upgraded my email system the blocks didn't carry over so he was able to get through.) Just a few weeks ago he phoned me. He has a very distinctive voice and I recognized him immediately. He said, "Turn off your phone so I can leave a message." I asked why he didn't want to talk man to man and he hung up. He called back about 45 minutes later and when I answered he said, "I don't want to talk to you." And then shouted, "TURN OFF YOUR PHONE!" He quickly hung up. He called again about two hours later and this time shouted, "TURN OFF YOUR PHONE!" Again, he quickly hung up. He phoned a few hours later and shouted, "DO IT NOW!" This time he didn't hang up. Growing weary of this stupidity I told him to stop calling and warned him that if he called again, I'd report him to the police. I then hung up on him. He called back about two minutes later and again shouted, "DO IT NOW!" and then hung up.

LC: Even on the telephone he wants to talk and talk and not be corrected or interrupted. A few years back I consulted an attorney to see about suing him to get him to take down some of the information on his website. Since I've made myself an Internet public figure (if there is such a thing) I think that some comment, some criticism and even some rudeness is and should be allowed. But Mr. Leigh has crossed the line into actual libel when he puts up much of the information that is on that website. The attorney said it was an obvious case and offered to initiate the lawsuit for $50,000. (That was just the starting point.) The problem is that I don’t have 50K on hand. And when we won, because Mr. Leigh has no assets to take. It would be an empty judgment. But if you all want to chip in I'll be happy to go forward with the case! LOL

LC: And Patricia we'd all be happier not knowing about this $hi+. But it's the price we pay for the Internet. I think it's a small price to pay for the good stuff that's available.


Lou Castle, Los Angeles, CA,
For training articles go to

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