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Working Dog Forum Working Dog Discussion for PPD, Sport and K9
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Gregg Tawney Puppy

Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 34 Location: California, United States
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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WOW.....I thought this one was going to slowly go away.....who started this mess!!! Just kidding, friendly dialogue is good for everyone.
In response to Woody's questions.....
1. Do I need it? I dont NEED it but I use it. Just like other tools it helps me obtain a goal. For me the goal is to let the dog "win" in aggression without the obvious presence of equipment. I can channel the dogs drives. At a certain point in training I can channel him from prey to fight. Back and forth.
2. Can I train others? yes. I let a skilled trainer or decoy watch many sessions and then under instruction I let them learn on a dog that is very strong. The student will then error on the side of caution and give the dog many wins. It is interesting....I have found that most trainers or decoys have the ability to put preasure on the dog but few know how and when to take the preasure off which is more important and is the problem with newbies putting dogs on the table without experience or proper instruction. Becuase of this, it makes the table a dangerous tool in the hands of some. Can anyone learn how to work a dog on the table?....."no". You need some natural ability. Having said that, I only put my dogs on the table with people that I know and trust. I would never put my dog on a table without knowing the trainer that was doing the table work.
3. Are table trained dogs better then non-table trained dogs? No, since every dog is different. Like most of you, I have seen some very nice street dogs that do a great job that have never set paw on the table. I think some dogs benifit more from the table then others. Once a dog is proven on the street and has figured out what his job is then I use the table less and less throughout his training.
Since we are talking particulars.....I will give you my reasons for tabling a dog last week. I am training a new dog for police work (3 years of age). The dog has seen a lot of bites on equipment (suits, sleeves, hidden suits, hidden sleeves, etc.) I put him on the table to channel him from prey to fight. From equipment to the man. The dog initially barked in prey and without seriousness. Like Jeff said previously...."the dogs learn that you are not able to cross a line", which would have been true if the dog was on a tie out. This dog looked away for a second which allowed me to grab him. (not hard, just sudden). This makes everything more real for the dog. His posture and bark became much more serious and I immediately gave him a win. That was it. The dog was probably on the table for about two minutes. I keep table sessions short. The next time, he jumped on the table and was "ready to rumble". He was much more serious and I was able to give him two or three wins. Next week I will probably channel him into fight and then I will quickly (a speedy presentation from behind the back is important) present the hidden sleeve, let him bite me, and then take a submissive position under the dog (since he is elevated) while he is on the bite. Of course every time he imporves his bite I will act as if he is killing me. I will then have the handler come in and remove the dog from the bite.
That's it. That is one of the ways I use the table. Connie...the offer still stands if you would like to see it in person and see for yourself how it is properly used. I cant speak for videos....I have not seen any on the table. I learned the table ten years ago from my mentor. If anyone on this board is ever it the Sacramento area I would be happy to show you how I have chosen to use it.
Sorry this one got a little "wordy"
Gregg |
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Stacia Porter Adolescent

Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 285 Location: Hickory, NC
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: Video |
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Thomas Barriano wrote: |
>What is your background in Schutzhund or protection sport? Having a >dog loose on the table defeats the purpose of restricting its options. Bad >training ruins dogs NOT tables. Dogs can't be injured on a properly
>designed table with a funtional swivel and a proper length chain and a
>collar (There are designs/plans on Steves website)
>Cleaning up the Out: There are several ways to use a table for the out.
>You can go passive (like Ivan Balabanov) so the dog gets no movement >and the dog outs and can then get rewarded. You can have a separate
>prong or nylon choke collar that you can use to get an opostion reflex
>You pull the dog towards you and the sleeve, the dog will pull in the >opposite reaction, the dog outs and you mark and reward. You can place
>the collar to get a gag reflex and the dog will spit out the sleeve. The
>big advantage is, the dogs reach is limited and he can't regrip and self >reward. If you want to blast the dog off the sleeve with a prong or >ecollar?
>You sure don't need a table to do that. |
My dog is a SchH dog, I grew up in Germany. I've never seen a dog injured during a courage test. I'm still confused as to why the out takes so much effort for many people. I have found it easier to train than the down (my dogs all hate the down and I have to continually work on it..but the out? Never a problem).
Why is a table inherent in those methods of cleaning up on out anyway? I don't see one thing you have listed that can't be done with the dog on the ground.
Quote: | >I agree that the point of debate is learning, but your initial commnet was
>"I don't like the idea of a table" how open are you to learning about >table trainng ? I'm sorry, but I see way too many people who have zero
>experience with table training that have opinions based on some second
>hand horror story or somone elses tiirade on another webpage. If you
>(or anyone else) are interested in table training the best way is to learn
>from sumeone. North Carolina isn't that far from Bowling Green KY.
>Contact Gene England and ask for recommendations and help.
>If you've already decided you don't like tables (and there is nothing
>wrong with that) there isn't much to be gained by continuing to debate?
>There are NO "How to Table Train" videos. I don't think there ever will
> be? |
Not liking the idea of a table is not the same as refusing to hear well laid, logical arguments in its favor. Once upon a time I taught English, speech, theater, and debate. I'm always good for a discussion, enjoy hearing good arguments, and have a fairly open mind. Aristotle said it was the mark of an educated mind to hear others' viewpoints without accepting them as our own. Just because I would never allow someone to place my dog on a table does not mean information from those who would is worthless.
I have not been swayed by the masses, but rather my own personal ethics in dog training. I do not place my dog in situations I deem dangerous. I'm standidng here staring at my ample dining room table thinkng that if my animal were to slip off that, there is a good chance he'd injure something. I also really don't like the idea of putting a dog in a situation where he has no choice but to bite. It defeats his genetics. My dog was never "taught" to bite; he did it naturally. If I produced a sleeve this very minute he'd bark and go for it.
However, as stated, I would watch video of table training and listen to fair explanation of its uses, methodology, and value. _________________ Stacia, mom to
Abbie the beagle mix
Achilles the GSD
Andromeda the GSD
3 human kids
and a partridge in a pear tree |
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Thomas Barriano Puppy
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 21 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Just observations, you asked.
>I don't consider myself a "table trainer" my dogs have been on a table
>and it was a postivie experience. If I found someone who know how to
>READ a dog (like Andres said) I wouldn't heistitate to use one again.
So, table trainers:
1. Do you need it?
>Nope, you don't NEED any tool. I use an e-collar but I can train withour
>it. Same with a prong collar. Tools make things easier, they don't
>substitute for reading your dog and using common sense.
2. Could you train others to use it?
>Not a chance in he11
3. Are your table-trained dogs better than others without it?
>My dogs are better than any dogs in the world IMHO no matter how
>they were trained  _________________ Regards
Thomas Barriano
Dubheasa \"DoDah\" Germania (BD 11/05/99) SchH III IPO III Mondio Ring
Brevet AKC WDM III CD CGC WAC ATT TT
Ascomannis Jago (BD 06/20/03) Dodah Son SchH I ATT WAC YTT CGC
Belatucadrus (BD 08/14/05) Dutch Boy
Devona (BD 05/07/05) Dutch Girl |
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Gregg Tawney Puppy

Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 34 Location: California, United States
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Video |
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"My dog was never "taught" to bite; he did it naturally. If I produced a sleeve this very minute he'd bark and go for it. [/quote]"
Stacia -
What if a suspect was laying in your atic and you needed your dog to engage him. If all he has seen is a sleeve, he may not. As a police dog trainer, I need to do everything that I can to insure that the dog will bite a person without equipment. The table is just another tool to help me work towards that goal.
Also, your dog was "taught" to bite the sleeve. He had the natural desire, yes, but you probably developed that natural desire through training......just like I develop the natural drives on the table.
Gregg
PS. Sorry for the duplicate posts.....technical difficulties!!!!!!!!  |
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Woody Taylor Moderator

Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Posts: 625
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Video |
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Gregg Tawney wrote: | "My dog was never "taught" to bite; he did it naturally. If I produced a sleeve this very minute he'd bark and go for it. | "
Stacia -
What if a suspect was laying in your atic and you needed your dog to engage him. If all he has seen is a sleeve, he may not. As a police dog trainer, I need to do everything that I can to insure that the dog will bite a person without equipment. The table is just another tool to help me work towards that goal.
Also, your dog was "taught" to bite the sleeve. He had the natural desire, yes, but you probably developed that natural desire through training......just like I develop the natural drives on the table.
Gregg
PS. Sorry for the duplicate posts.....technical difficulties!!!!!!!! [/quote]
Gregg, you are not kidding on the technical difficulties. Sheesh, I apologize to everybody for this, not sure what's going on. If it's any consolation, I think we're all double-posting, etc.
Anyway, I can't tell if the post is actually there that I put up earlier , but thanks to both Gregg and Thomas for responding to my questions.
And Gregg, you make a good point: there may be some applications of dog work (MWD, PSD) in my mind which may very well beg the question of using as many different methods as possible to ensure the best result. A sport dog is an entirely different animal (on many, many levels) to me.
So Gregg (and others): who taught you to use a table? Did they teach you to use a table the way you use it now? _________________ Defending n00bs everywhere since March 2006 |
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Thomas Barriano Puppy
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 21 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Connie Sutherland"
I do not agree with what you said about dry humor, but I realize (the whole board realizes - OFTEN) that you two dislike each other. Personally, I find that it skews the otherwise-intelligent posts you both make (when you aren't busy attacking each other), but hey..... maybe others enjoy it. I do find it slightly more palatable if there's some humor thrown in.
>Hi Connie,
>I didn't see Tims comment on dry humor. The original comment was
>made in response to my post. I read it as sarcasam, not humour
>of any sort. In the interest of playing nice, I choose not to reply to
>certain people. _________________ Regards
Thomas Barriano
Dubheasa \"DoDah\" Germania (BD 11/05/99) SchH III IPO III Mondio Ring
Brevet AKC WDM III CD CGC WAC ATT TT
Ascomannis Jago (BD 06/20/03) Dodah Son SchH I ATT WAC YTT CGC
Belatucadrus (BD 08/14/05) Dutch Boy
Devona (BD 05/07/05) Dutch Girl |
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Jerry Lyda Young Dog
Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 164 Location: Evans, Ga
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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Stacia, you said, My dog is a SchH dog, I grew up in Germany. I've never seen a dog injured during a courage test.
I have. I've seen canines come out, I've seen jammed necks and I've seen helpers get hurt to keep a dog from being injured.
You also said,I do not place my dog in situations I deem dangerous.
When you do sport work or police dog work you DO put your dog in a place where he CAN get hurt. _________________ Jerry L. Lyda
www.qualityk9concepts.com |
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Woody Taylor Moderator

Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Posts: 625
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: Video |
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Gregg Tawney wrote: | "My dog was never "taught" to bite; he did it naturally. If I produced a sleeve this very minute he'd bark and go for it. | "
Stacia -
What if a suspect was laying in your atic and you needed your dog to engage him. If all he has seen is a sleeve, he may not. As a police dog trainer, I need to do everything that I can to insure that the dog will bite a person without equipment. The table is just another tool to help me work towards that goal.
Also, your dog was "taught" to bite the sleeve. He had the natural desire, yes, but you probably developed that natural desire through training......just like I develop the natural drives on the table.
Gregg
PS. Sorry for the duplicate posts.....technical difficulties!!!!!!!! [/quote]
Gregg, you are not kidding on the technical difficulties. Sheesh, I apologize to everybody for this, not sure what's going on. If it's any consolation, I think we're all double-posting, etc.
Anyway, I can't tell if the post is actually there that I put up earlier , but thanks to both Gregg and Thomas for responding to my questions.
And Gregg, you make a good point: there may be some applications of dog work (MWD, PSD) in my mind which may very well beg the question of using as many different methods as possible to ensure the best result. A sport dog is an entirely different animal (on many, many levels) to me.
So Gregg (and others): who taught you to use a table? Did they teach you to use a table the way you use it now? _________________ Defending n00bs everywhere since March 2006 |
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Gregg Tawney Puppy

Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 34 Location: California, United States
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Stacia -
One of my mentors currently trains dogs for the Secret Service and I am not sure he would want me to post his name so out of respect for him I won't. Sorry.
I do not use the table exactly like he showed me. I think everyone uses the table a little differently. That is what makes this discussion so difficult. I agree with you.....sport dog training is different then police dog training. I have sport dogs in my club that will not see the table for fight/defense.
Gregg |
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Lou Castle Teething
Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 75 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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Gregg Tawney wrote: | For me the goal is to let the dog "win" in aggression without the obvious presence of equipment. |
Can you explain how this is "without the obvious presence of equipment." Seem to me that its quite obvious to the dog that he's on a table.
Gregg Tawney wrote: | I can channel the dogs drives. At a certain point in training I can channel him from prey to fight. Back and forth. |
What is the advantage of the table for doing this?
Gregg Tawney wrote: | I think some dogs benifit more from the table then others. |
Can you describe the dog that will get more benefit from the table than another dog? Can you describe the table that you're using; how big, shape, how far off the ground?
Jerry Lyda wrote: | If one is put out someone will down it's use no matter how well the training was done and the good that was gotten out of the dog. |
That's going to be the case with some people no matter how good a video is or what topic it's on. I don't think that's a good reason not to put out a video.
Jerry Lyda wrote: | How can you show on video how to read a dog. |
Seem to me that's the perfect media to teach that. Some people have tried to do it with photos or sketches in a book, but in a video you can stop the tape and highlight the signs that you want the student to look at. Then you can run it at normal speed so they can see it clearly.
Gregg Tawney wrote: | What if a suspect was laying in your atic and you needed your dog to engage him. |
It's a bit off-topic but I don't see the need for a dog to "engage" someone in an attic. It's a dangerous place for a dog. He's lost his advantage of speed and agility. There are toxic substances present in many of them. And there are dangling wires and ducting that can easily entrap him. And there's always the very possible, seen it several times during training, of him breaking through the ceiling and being injured during the 7' fall.
This might make for a better separate topic if anyone is interested in discussing it.
Thomas Barriano wrote: | The original comment was made in response to my post. I read it as sarcasam, not humour of any sort. |
Actually only the last sentence was meant as sarcasm and that's a form of humor. The rest was serious. Humor, like art, is in the eye of the beholder.
Thomas Barriano wrote: | In the interest of playing nice, I choose not to reply to certain people. |
Reply or don't, doesn't mean a thing to me. I'm capable of staying professional even if some aren't. _________________ Regards,
Lou Castle, Los Angeles, CA
Uncllou@aol.com
www.loucastle.com |
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Thomas Barriano Puppy
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 21 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Video |
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[quote="Stacia Porter"
My dog is a SchH dog, I grew up in Germany. I've never seen a dog injured during a courage test. I'm still confused as to why the out takes so much effort for many people. I have found it easier to train than the down (my dogs all hate the down and I have to continually work on it..but the out? Never a problem).
>Hi Stacia
>Wow if you've never seen a dog injured doing a courage test. You've
>been very fortuanate or only seen experienced decoys or both
>I just had my Dobermann male jam his right leg because the decoy
>didn't catch him properly. Luckily it wasn't serious. I'm not sure how
>much trouble everyone else has, with training the out. The "problem"
>I having now is Jago has started to reward himself. He'll spit out the
>sleeve like it had hot sauce on it, BUT he'll give himself a reward bite
>after waiting for 5-10 seconds. Heck if I didn't want a "training
>challenge" I wouldn't have Dobermanns
Why is a table inherent in those methods of cleaning up on out anyway? I don't see one thing you have listed that can't be done with the dog on the ground.
>It is just easier on the table
Quote: | >I agree that the point of debate is learning, but your initial commnet was
>"I don't like the idea of a table" how open are you to learning about >table trainng ? I'm sorry, but I see way too many people who have zero
>experience with table training that have opinions based on some second
>hand horror story or somone elses tiirade on another webpage. If you
>(or anyone else) are interested in table training the best way is to learn
>from sumeone. North Carolina isn't that far from Bowling Green KY.
>Contact Gene England and ask for recommendations and help.
>If you've already decided you don't like tables (and there is nothing
>wrong with that) there isn't much to be gained by continuing to debate?
>There are NO "How to Table Train" videos. I don't think there ever will
> be? |
Not liking the idea of a table is not the same as refusing to hear well laid, logical arguments in its favor. Once upon a time I taught English, speech, theater, and debate. I'm always good for a discussion, enjoy hearing good arguments, and have a fairly open mind. Aristotle said it was the mark of an educated mind to hear others' viewpoints without accepting them as our own. Just because I would never allow someone to place my dog on a table does not mean information from those who would is worthless.
>Diffeerent strokes for different folks. I enjoy training my dogs, more
>than debating and the only Aristotle I'm familiar with is, Jachie O's
>second husband
I have not been swayed by the masses, but rather my own personal ethics in dog training. I do not place my dog in situations I deem dangerous. I'm standidng here staring at my ample dining room table thinkng that if my animal were to slip off that, there is a good chance he'd injure something.
>The table has a steel pole in the middle with a short chain and a swivel
>The dog can't fall off a properly designed table _________________ Regards
Thomas Barriano
Dubheasa \"DoDah\" Germania (BD 11/05/99) SchH III IPO III Mondio Ring
Brevet AKC WDM III CD CGC WAC ATT TT
Ascomannis Jago (BD 06/20/03) Dodah Son SchH I ATT WAC YTT CGC
Belatucadrus (BD 08/14/05) Dutch Boy
Devona (BD 05/07/05) Dutch Girl |
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Thomas Barriano Puppy
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 21 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Video |
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[quote="Stacia Porter"
My dog is a SchH dog, I grew up in Germany. I've never seen a dog injured during a courage test. I'm still confused as to why the out takes so much effort for many people. I have found it easier to train than the down (my dogs all hate the down and I have to continually work on it..but the out? Never a problem).
>Hi Stacia
>Wow if you've never seen a dog injured doing a courage test. You've
>been very fortuanate or only seen experienced decoys or both
>I just had my Dobermann male jam his right leg because the decoy
>didn't catch him properly. Luckily it wasn't serious. I'm not sure how
>much trouble everyone else has, with training the out. The "problem"
>I having now is Jago has started to reward himself. He'll spit out the
>sleeve like it had hot sauce on it, BUT he'll give himself a reward bite
>after waiting for 5-10 seconds. Heck if I didn't want a "training
>challenge" I wouldn't have Dobermanns
Why is a table inherent in those methods of cleaning up on out anyway? I don't see one thing you have listed that can't be done with the dog on the ground.
>It is just easier on the table
Quote: | >I agree that the point of debate is learning, but your initial commnet was
>"I don't like the idea of a table" how open are you to learning about >table trainng ? I'm sorry, but I see way too many people who have zero
>experience with table training that have opinions based on some second
>hand horror story or somone elses tiirade on another webpage. If you
>(or anyone else) are interested in table training the best way is to learn
>from sumeone. North Carolina isn't that far from Bowling Green KY.
>Contact Gene England and ask for recommendations and help.
>If you've already decided you don't like tables (and there is nothing
>wrong with that) there isn't much to be gained by continuing to debate?
>There are NO "How to Table Train" videos. I don't think there ever will
> be? |
Not liking the idea of a table is not the same as refusing to hear well laid, logical arguments in its favor. Once upon a time I taught English, speech, theater, and debate. I'm always good for a discussion, enjoy hearing good arguments, and have a fairly open mind. Aristotle said it was the mark of an educated mind to hear others' viewpoints without accepting them as our own. Just because I would never allow someone to place my dog on a table does not mean information from those who would is worthless.
>Diffeerent strokes for different folks. I enjoy training my dogs, more
>than debating and the only Aristotle I'm familiar with is, Jachie O's
>second husband
I have not been swayed by the masses, but rather my own personal ethics in dog training. I do not place my dog in situations I deem dangerous. I'm standidng here staring at my ample dining room table thinkng that if my animal were to slip off that, there is a good chance he'd injure something.
>The table has a steel pole in the middle with a short chain and a swivel
>The dog can't fall off a properly designed table _________________ Regards
Thomas Barriano
Dubheasa \"DoDah\" Germania (BD 11/05/99) SchH III IPO III Mondio Ring
Brevet AKC WDM III CD CGC WAC ATT TT
Ascomannis Jago (BD 06/20/03) Dodah Son SchH I ATT WAC YTT CGC
Belatucadrus (BD 08/14/05) Dutch Boy
Devona (BD 05/07/05) Dutch Girl |
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Tim Martens Young Dog
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 212
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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i agree _________________ if it ain't dutch, it ain't much...
Last edited by Tim Martens on Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lou Castle Teething
Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 75 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Video |
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Thomas Barriano wrote: | The table has a steel pole in the middle with a short chain and a swivel The dog can't fall off a properly designed table |
It's possible I'm missing something here but I fail to see anything that would prevent a dog from losing his footing and falling off the table. Perhaps if the table was quite large and the chain was quite short he couldn't near the edge but I've never seen a table like that. Of course, I haven't seen everything. Is this how "the dog can' fall off a properly designed table," he can't get near the edge? _________________ Regards,
Lou Castle, Los Angeles, CA
Uncllou@aol.com
www.loucastle.com |
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Lou Castle Teething
Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 75 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: Video |
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Thomas Barriano wrote: | The table has a steel pole in the middle with a short chain and a swivel The dog can't fall off a properly designed table |
It's possible I'm missing something here but I fail to see anything that would prevent a dog from losing his footing and falling off the table. Perhaps if the table was quite large and the chain was quite short he couldn't near the edge but I've never seen a table like that. Of course, I haven't seen everything. Is this how "the dog can' fall off a properly designed table," he can't get near the edge? _________________ Regards,
Lou Castle, Los Angeles, CA
Uncllou@aol.com
www.loucastle.com |
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Thomas Barriano Puppy
Joined: 27 Mar 2006 Posts: 21 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:57 pm Post subject: Duplicate posts etc. |
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First off. sorry for the quadruplicate post. I'm not sure what happened.
It acted like it was locked up and so I back stepped and tried again
************************************************************
Lou Castle wrote:
Thomas Barriano wrote:
The original comment was made in response to my post. I read it as sarcasam, not humour of any sort.
Actually only the last sentence was meant as sarcasm and that's a form of humor. The rest was serious. Humor, like art, is in the eye of the beholder.
Thomas Barriano wrote:
In the interest of playing nice, I choose not to reply to certain people.
Reply or don't, doesn't mean a thing to me. I'm capable of staying professional even if some aren't.
>Mr Castle
>I have no interest or desire, to engage in any debate, discussioo,
>argument, etc. on any subject, with you. Been there, done that.
>With all the members of this Forum and other lists, that seem to enjoy
>that activity, it doesn't seem unreasonable to request, that you refrain
>from commienting on, or replying to any of my posts? I hope Woody or
>one of the other Moderators will ask you to honor my request.
_________________ _________________ Regards
Thomas Barriano
Dubheasa \"DoDah\" Germania (BD 11/05/99) SchH III IPO III Mondio Ring
Brevet AKC WDM III CD CGC WAC ATT TT
Ascomannis Jago (BD 06/20/03) Dodah Son SchH I ATT WAC YTT CGC
Belatucadrus (BD 08/14/05) Dutch Boy
Devona (BD 05/07/05) Dutch Girl |
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Stacia Porter Adolescent

Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 285 Location: Hickory, NC
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: Duplicate posts etc. |
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Thomas, I mean this with all due respect, but if you have no interest in discussion of working dog training methods and related subject, why are you here? And while you believe your comment concerning Aristotle to be humorous, I don't find it as such. I am never amused by insulting education.
For those who have seen dogs injured during courage tests: I don't doubt it. I've just never seen it. To me, there is more risk of damage to a dog on the table (and with other training methods not discussed here) than on the field with an experienced helper. Nowhere in this thread have I deemed the table abusive or trainers who employ it lazy or even wrong. I have simply stated that it is not a method I would choose to employ. I also do not use the e-collar; it doesn't make it a bad thing, and it doesn't mean I won't listen to discussion. It just means I don't use it. _________________ Stacia, mom to
Abbie the beagle mix
Achilles the GSD
Andromeda the GSD
3 human kids
and a partridge in a pear tree |
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Jenni Williams Adolescent

Joined: 26 Mar 2006 Posts: 344 Location: IL, USA
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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Just to stir the pot... : no offense to anyone, truly, but it seems a bit unreasonable to request that someone not reply to your posts. This is a discussion forum, unless I'm mistaken (sarcasm/humor), and therefore, posts that are written are up there for comments and replies from whoever damn well feels like it-not just the people you LIKE. Isn't arguing one of the finer things in life anyway? I personally am not all that interested in straight up name calling, but a heated debate or full-blown argument is interesting and informative in situations like this, because they happen when people are passionate in their beliefs. Most people only become passionate about something if they have SOME knowledge. So...hopefully...these somewhat passionate debates are teaching those who know NOTHING a little SOMETHING. At least, they have been for me. So, truly, no offense to anyone; I like seeing people have conviction, and am interested in the reasons behind the conviction. And for the record, I find most things in life, pleasant or not, can be amusing.  _________________ The ugly and the stupid have the best of it in this world. -Oscar Wilde |
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Lou Castle Teething
Joined: 04 Apr 2006 Posts: 75 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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Thomas Barriano wrote: | I have no interest or desire, to engage in any debate, discussioo, argument, etc. on any subject, with you. Been there, done that. With all the members of this Forum and other lists, that seem to enjoy that activity, it doesn't seem unreasonable to request, that you refrain from commienting on, or replying to any of my posts? I hope Woody or one of the other Moderators will ask you to honor my request. |
I think that's an unreasonable request. If you make some wazoo statement I'm going to comment. You're not required to reply. It used to be, with a few exceptions (and he's been banned from just about list he's ever been on, including this one) that dog trainers could disagree without getting rude or unprofessional. Based on your behavior here that's not the case with you. Notice that it's your comments that have been censored by the moderators because they were out of line. None of my comments towards you have been censored. Seems like I should be the one who would be whining to a moderator for protection. But that's not the case.
Repeatedly moderators have asked that such comments as yours NOT be posted in the middle of a thread. They've asked that they be PM'd or that these comments go to the Moderator forum.
Don't expect me to ignore statements of yours that I either agree with or disagree with. Some anger management classes might be in order or perhaps just remembering that you don't (and neither do I) have all the answers.
There's an easy way to have me not respond to your posts. Don't write any. Of course then I and the rest of the members of the list would be deprived of your extensive experience. (No sarcasm intended). Failing that, I'd suggest that you develop a thicker skin. This isn't your home training field where everyone will nod and say, "Uh huh" at every one of your marvelous pronouncements. (That was sarcasm). _________________ Regards,
Lou Castle, Los Angeles, CA
Uncllou@aol.com
www.loucastle.com |
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Woody Taylor Moderator

Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Posts: 625
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Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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This one's easy...if you don't want to interact with somebody, don't. That's totally cool. Hate to see that, because I think sound, provocative interaction is the spice of life. But if there's a deeper current there, by all means, just brush it off. This is a very tiny slice of the internet, we're suckers if we get pulled into it and it's crazy not to enjoy your time here.
What we don't want is personal attacks in the midst of working through things we all really care about even though that's natural. So it's all good, take a deep breath, and keep in mind these are real folks with real stuff happening to them outside of this forum. This forum is not the ultimate expression of who they are. Assume that they're good people, even if they are momentarily (consistently?) off of their rockers relative to your understanding of dogs.
In most cases, in my experience, they almost always are good folks. _________________ Defending n00bs everywhere since March 2006 |
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