Here we're going to be subjected to a load of CONJECTURE, RUMORS, and BULLSHIT.  This anonymous fool is just one more hate filled "reviewer" .... she calls herself "Ava" - I call her "Ava The Hater".  Her "feature" is a collection of non-stop LIES.

Ava The Hater's text is BLACK .... My rebuttal text is BLUE.

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Sunday, December 16, 2007

Ike Turner (Ava and C.I. feature)

A piece of trash died last week

A real piece of trash wrote this article.

and wasn't it cute to see the boys come out and try to defend one of their own?

With liars like you throwing around this kind of bullshit, it's appropriate to read some FACTS.  Since you can't provide facts, people who knew, worked, recorded, and traveled with Ike seem to "come out" .... expecting anything different is pretty stupid. 

Ike Turner was born scum and died scum.

You are out of your mind.  YOU'RE scum, as clearly illustrated - with your own words - on this rebuttal page. 

B-b-but, he was an artist! That's the cry from the Ike Defenders.

No - it's a FACT.

In between birth and death, he robbed others of songwriting credit,

Can you prove that?

tormented musicians,

How about naming one?  I was one of Ike's musicians from 1969-1976 .... I wasn't "tormented" - I was always treated more than fairly. 

Soko, Warren, Jackie, Claude, Blue, Mac, Eddie, Larry, Esther, Edna, and Vera weren't "tormented", either.  You invented "tormented".

broke all union rules by levying 'fines' on backup singers that were only designed to enrich his own pockets,

Fining was (and still is) standard procedure.  Group members either followed the group rules or they got fined.  Need some examples, Ava The Hater?  Joe Tex, James Brown, Ray Charles, Wilson Pickett, Paul Anka, Jerry Lee Lewis, Buddy Rich, Elvis Presley - the list is endless.  Fines - and "tormenting" - were everyday occurrences - and not limited to "stars".

 

Try this example, Ava The Hater.  Just click the link.  Here - try another.

 

If you have the INTEGRITY (I seriously doubt it) to listen to the links above, I can assure you that Ike NEVER talked to his musicians that way - not because he wasn't a walking control freak (he sure was!) - instead, he could accomplish his objectives quicker and easier: just fine the "offender(s)" until they got the message.  So - if somebody screwed up, and was fined $100.00 - and then did the same thing again - the fine (typically) went up to $200.00.  And the next time, it might be $400.00 - OR it might be his entire paycheck.  I KNOW this - seven (7) years of working with Ike proved it .... and Ike never had to fine me.  I just obeyed the rules.  (Page II tells about a "fake fine" - I wasn't really fined at all.)

[Momentary interruption: My first fine was at age 13.  It was at a high school dance.  I had just started traveling with an 8 piece group.  I went onstage with messy, un-polished shoes: $10.00 fine.  I learned .... quick.  My next fine ($15.00) was for not wearing the correct tie, which was a required part of our group's uniforms.  I learned .... quick.  There were several more fines throughout the years.  I learned to follow the rules.]  

Enrich his pockets?  You actually believe Ike fined anyone for MONEY?  He had more money than you'll EVER see.  Thus - Ava The Hater - what the hell would a $100.00 fine mean to Ike? 

 

AND - Ava The Hater - why not back up your "union rules" fairytale with actual SCANS? 

SHOW that it is against ANY union rule to fine a musician or singer. 

(You don't have a union rule book?  Contact the American Federation of Musicians and get one.)

PROVE that Ike "broke all union rules".

 

YOU claimed it - YOU prove it

 

Furthermore, you claim Ike "broke all union rules". 

Maybe you could list ALL union rules, and illustrate how Ike broke them all.

(I can't wait to see this.)            

recorded a ton of crap and never 'discovered' anything he wasn't led to.

Is that right?  LET'S SEE Ike's "ton of crap" .... click the link.

 

The Bihari brothers didn't HIRE Ike to travel around the south, and FIND TALENT?  Sam Phillips didn't do exactly the same?  You must be in a vacuum.

"Rocket 88" was cut in March, 1951.  Ann Bullock was 12 years old.  Joe Bihari had Ike playing on B.B. King records immediately.  

Leonard Chess, the Biharis, and Sam Phillips knew Ike was an amazing musician, writer, arranger, and producer long before anybody ever heard of Ann Bullock.       

That's 'artistic' Ike.

That's RIGHT, Ava The Hater. 

They know they can't make a case for the person, so the boys come out swinging and insisting that, as a musician, Ike was really something.

Why don't you compare your lifetime accomplishments with Ike's?  Can you actually DO anything besides LIE?

They've had to inflate the record to make that claim.

No, I don't think so, Ava The Hater.  So why don't you PROVE it? 

Oh, boy.  Now we dump some of this BULLSHIT in somebody else's lap.

Danny Schechter (News Dissector), whom we like, felt the need to offer this last week:

"Ike Turner was the man who discovered Tina who was born in Nutbush Tennesee. He married her and together they had one of the most innovative R & B acts in the history of rock."

That's cute. It's not reality, but it's cute.

"Cute", Ava The Hater?  The guy can't even spell "TENNESSEE" correctly. 

First off, Ike and Tina, if they ever did marry, married long after he 'discovered' her. Tina Turner has always claimed they were married in Mexico, Ike stated they never got married and that he was married to another woman before he met Tina and remained married to her until two years before Tina escaped his slavery. Slavery? We'll get to that.

Let's DO that right NOW.

SLAVERY?  WHEN and WHERE did SLAVE OWNERS buy their SLAVES anything they wanted, provide an American Express Gold Card (credit limit: about $20,000.00 in 1969), and give the SLAVE(S) the keys to the Rolls Royce?  Answer THAT - Ava The Hater.  

But let's deal with this nonsense that Ike 'discovered' Tina. That's a bit like Columbus 'discovering' a populated country, isn't it?

You are a LIAR.  Your "article" is idiotic babbling.

Who DID discover AND TRAIN Ann Bullock?

Christopher Columbus?

 

Factually, her name was Ann Bullock, ~19 years old, the unwed mother of Craig (Raymond Hill's baby, born in 1958, and Ronnie Turner, (Ike's son), born in 1960), thrown out of the house by her mother, living in a dirty garage in an alley, working as a nurse assistant.  Ike was kind enough to give her some money, food, clothes, and a clean place to live.  Read this. 

Here's reality, Tina's sister (Alline) dated a member of The Kings of Rhythm (Ike's group). Ike let many women sing onstage at Club Manhattan in St. Louis.

Tina wanted to sing onstage, Alline's boyfriend passed that onto Ike who ignored it. Many nights later, Alline's boyfriend held a microphone up to the table the two sisters were sitting at, held it up for Alline to sing, Alline didn't want to but Tina grabbed her chance and began singing the lyrics to the song Ike was playing onstage: "You Know I Love You." Tina was brought on stage and was a huge, huge hit with the club audience.

It's only YOUR reality.  A reality full of lies.  But they're interesting lies .... next, you'll probably claim YOU WERE THERE!

Nothing in those facts demonstrates that Ike "discovered" Tina.

FACTS?  WHAT "FACTS"?  You haven't got a CLUE.  This is another "I SAW THE MOVIE!  I HATE IKE TURNER!" - not FACTS.

That's why Tina got into the band to begin with.

WRONG AGAIN, Ava The Hater.

The audience reaction to her made Ike suspect she might be a pathway to success. He wasn't convinced.

Did Ike TELL you that?  Can you prove it?

So when "A Fool For Love" was brought to him (no, he didn't write the song, he appropriated writing credit as he would often do),

Is that a fact?  Don't you even know the title of the song was "A Fool IN Love"?

If Ike DIDN'T write it - then who did?  WHO brought it to him?

Ava The Hater - would you be kind enough to elaborate on "he appropriated writing credit as he would often do" - I'm very curious about your "expert knowledge" on THIS subject.

 

he had her sing on the demo. But, here's the thing, even then he doubted what she could do. And how she got to sing on the demo was usually told by Ike (and Tina's own version was in agreement) as he kept losing his male singers (Tina was just one more singer who happened to be very popular with audiences), the studio time was booked already and, by default, he had to use her. (The singer who he planned to use but had just left Ike was Art Lassiter.) After the recording, the alleged 'discoverer' still didn't grasp what he had and -- as he, Tina and others have noted over the years (during their time together and after) -- he intended to recut the song with a male vocal. It was the owner of Sue Records (the only label interested in "A Fool In Love") who convinced Ike that his 'discovery' had nailed the vocal and no male vocalist was needed for another take.

 

Wow!  You must have BEEN THERE YOURSELF, to write this kind of public fairytale.

 

You claim "Tina was just one more singer who happened to be very popular with audiences".

 

OK - How about it, Ava The Hater? 

Why not vomit up some more lies about Ann's spectacular career BEFORE Ike Turner? 

Where was she "popular with audiences"?  WHAT "audiences"?

Surprise me .... the nurses at Barnes Hospital, right?

She was singing while she cleaned, made beds, and washed laundry?

 

Ann - The Singing Nurse Assistant!

(Not every hospital has one of them!)

(Maceo! Bring in the horns!)

Though it would be a little while later before Tina found out, this is where she becomes Tina. Like a slave owner, Ike thought he could give her whatever name he wanted and the name he wanted was "Tina." (A name Tina originally didn't care for.) The single came out and sailed up the charts and Tina was hospitalized with jaundice. The 'caring' Ike wanted her out of the hospital in spite of doctor's orders (she was also pregnant at the time), so Tina snuck out.

 

Can you prove it?  Nope - I don't think you can.  PROVE ME WRONG, Ava The Hater.  

Here's the reality on Ike. He didn't have a lot of respect for women.

 

How the hell do YOU know?  Did Ike confide in you?

The reality is, you are full of shit. 

 

If that shocked you, you are truly naive.

 

And YOU are truly a LIAR.

 

He wanted a male singer.

 

How do you know that?

 

He invested in them. But they wouldn't take his crap.

 

Who did he invest in?

 

They would and did leave. Suddenly, Tina has announced herself to the world (he didn't discover her)

 

HOW did "Tina announced herself to the world"?

Didn't Ike ALLOW her to sit in occasionally and sing a few songs with HIS Kings of Rhythm?

Didn't Ike ALLOW her to sing on HIS recording session? 

And .... if Ike didn't discover AND TRAIN Ann for years ....  

THEN WHO DID - Ava The Hater?

 

and he's got a huge hit. Whether he married her or not, he immediately began controlling her and abusing her because he thought that was his right.

 

HOW do you know what Ike THOUGHT? 

Now reading some of the boys last week, it appeared that the film What's Love Got To Do With It confused them.

 

No, liar - it confused YOU.  You should go watch the "factual" movie a few dozen more times .... I bet you're addicted to it.

 

Or possibly it was Angela Bassett's fighting figure that confused them? Her deltoids are world class and could qualify her for a bodybuilding competition, no question.

 

Now you ALSO hold yourself up as a WORLD CLASS BODYBUILDER JUDGE?  "No question"?  WRONG.  I question your claim. 

I question your qualifications to make such a statement .... have YOU been a JUDGE at the Ms. Olympia competitions and other IFBB events?

I doubt it, Ava The Hater.

 

While she gave an amazing performance, it was too strong to capture Tina (offstage) in the days before she left Ike. The body type was wrong as well which is why it's so very jarring when Tina takes over the performance during the last minutes of the film's final scene.

 

Now you claim to be an expert on the PRODUCTION DECISIONS of a movie, too? 

At the very least, you must have been a CONSULTANT for the movie - or were you a CO-PRODUCER?

 

Your mouth is running like a race car, but you ain't gettin' TRACTION, Ava The Hater

 

It's equally true that Ike was softened by the actor performing him who also had the benefit of being attractive.

 

Didn't you MISS something, liar?  Laurence Fishburne was about TWICE the size of Ike Turner.  What's "ATTRACTIVE" got to do with FACTS?

Somehow, the film's timeline?, some people seem to have the idea that he beat her up real bad in a limo in Dallas in 1976 and Tina up and left. Wrong. He beat her repeatedly.

 

Nothing to back up these claims either.

 

He beat her through the sixties, he beat through the seventies until she left.

And when she left, this 'kind' man threatened to kill her and did a little more than threaten.

That wasn't about 'love.' What's love got to do with it? Not a damn thing.

 

Ava The Hater .... what's TRUTH got to do with your "article"?  NOT A DAMN THING.

Tina was a meal ticket and long before Ike moved into his 'open' relationship ('open' for him only, of course),

 

PROVE IT, liar.

 

Tina was well aware of his many girlfriends, mistresses and one-night-stands.

 

That's RIGHT!  READ this. 

Ann PIMPED Ike to other women - and it went on for years and years.

She CONSTANTLY PROVIDED him with OTHER WOMEN.

 

I saw and heard this myself, for the first time, in late November, 1969, at Club Paradise, in Memphis, Tennessee   

 

This was a very well known FACT among the people in and around the I&TT Revue.

Ann regularly introduced Ike to other women, and/or told them Ike would like to invite them to the party suites after the shows.

 

You have any logic or common sense, Ava The Hater?

 

When ANN made the introductions and invitations,

the women didn't feel threatened that Ann would blow up into a jealous fight with them.

Ann PIMPED Ike, she kept the women calm and relaxed.  Ann made it clear that she had no problem with Ike's activities.

THAT'S how it really was.

 

We saw Ike with various women.  They sure loved that free cocaine, too! 

What did you see, Ava The Hater .... a bullshit movie?

 

When she would try to leave, he would beat her. When she did leave, he would pull her off a bus and beat her. When the song didn't sail up the charts, he'd beat her. When he was having a bad day, he'd beat her. When he thought she was getting too much credit (she was the act), he'd beat her. He'd beat her for any reason whenever he damn well felt like it. It was a non-stop abusive relationship.
 

Now PROVE IT, Ava The Hater.

 

[ Many paragraphs of idiotic text are removed. ]

Tina was the one who got them to update their sound when their music was dying in the sixties. So the idea that "even Tina has to" feel anything is beyond belief.

 

WRONG AGAIN, Ava The Hater.  Ann had NO SAY WHATSOEVER regarding MUSIC.  That was Ike's responsibility, AND ALWAYS WAS - long before Ike ever knew Ann Bullock existed - long before Ann ever heard of Ike Turner.

She was enslaved. She wasn't allowed to live her life. She wasn't allowed to practice her religion. She wasn't allowed to be just an artist in the revue. She would try to bargain her way out of the relationship with that and Ike would just beat her.
 

(YAWN)

He beat her because he was damn lucky she presented herself in his life. He beat her because he couldn't beat men and he couldn't make the male singers stay. He beat her because she was his ticket to big money and big fame. Even with all her talents provided him with, he still beat her and that was because he really couldn't take the fact that no one really considered it "Ike and Tina," it was just Tina.

 

(YAWN)  Yeah, yeah, yeah.  ANN (not Ike) created the entire I&TT Revue, right?  Ike just followed directions like a good little pomaded, conk-hairdo boy, right? 

ANN (not Ike) wrote the rhythm and horn parts, right?  ANN (not Ike) arranged everybody's parts, right?  ANN (not Ike) told me if I should play a Fender Rhodes or Wurlitzer electric piano, right?  ANN (not Ike) told me which songs I should play Hohner clavinet on, right?  

 

"It was just Tina"?  You are hallucinating - right?     

 

Which is why the Who wanted Tina for their film (Tommy) and not Ike.

 

(YAWN)  The FILM PART did not call for a 13-16 piece I&TT Revue, fool.

 

Which is why Phil Spector wanted Tina (and not Ike) for "River Deep Mountain High."

 

(YAWN)  SHIT - Phil Spector recorded things HIS way.  He also thought Ike was a genius - and publicly stated that many times.

 

By the end of the act, he couldn't even keep it together in the studio.

 

THAT is the SINGULAR, MOST HONEST STATEMENT I have found in your ENTIRE bullshit "article" .... congratulations, Ava The Hater.

But - even here you're only partially right.  I know - I cut the keyboard tracks on their last four (4) songs.   

 

He beat her over and over for their entire relationship. He beat her with his fists, he beat her with wire hangers, he beat her with whatever was handy. An electrical cord could and would do. He threatened her with death (repeatedly) if she left him.

 

(YAWN)  Explain how she SURVIVED without DYING. 

And now (yeah, NOW) explain how she went onstage to sing shows after "Ike broke her jaw".  (<< everyone REALLY should check this link)

 

If Tina had died, she nearly did several times, at the hands of Ike, if he had killed her, would it have been different?

 

"been different"?  Goddamn right!  She'd be DEAD.  But she isn't dead, Ava The Hater.

Ann attempted suicide numerous times.  Did Ike FORCE her to take 50 or more pills - several different times - in more than one country? 

Maybe you could describe HOW Ike FORCED Ann to attempt suicide multiple times.

 

You REALLY love the word "BEAT", don't you, Ava The Hater?

You used it at least 35 times in your bullshit "article".

I didn't bother with your entire load of bullshit, but I did a quick check.

You used the word "Ike" approximately 51 times.

You used the word "Tina" approximately 53 times.

 

[ The remainder of Ava The Hater's text has been removed.  There's no point in trying to deal with TRUTH. ]