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Author Topic: When to start training
redwarlock
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posted November 16, 2001 07:44 AM     Profile for redwarlock   Email redwarlock     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hello, I have 2 male dobermans who have just turned 5 months old. I have them house trained already, they do pretty well with the sit and stay command, and they are getting better at heeling. At what age should I start the real training? I would like both boys to have K9 training. They may be able to do volunteer work for our local Sheriffs Dpt. They are learing the basic's pretty quick, but I want to make sure I am not teaching them to early.

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Vulcan Red Warlock


Posts: 6 | From: Texas | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ed Frawley
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posted November 16, 2001 07:59 AM     Profile for Ed Frawley   Email Ed Frawley     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Raising two dogs at the same time is going to cause problems (uunless you keep them separated) I have written about this on the web site. You will not see these problems at 5 months - they will come when these dogs enter maturity. Unless you keep them separated 18 months from now you can write back and ask what to do about the dog fights.

If you want to learn how to obedience train them - get my Basic Dog Obedience Video http://leerburg.com/302.htm Read the description of the tape. You are also going to have problems that you would normally not have had you raised these dogs separatly.


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redwarlock
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posted November 16, 2001 08:13 AM     Profile for redwarlock   Email redwarlock     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
You are absolutely correct, I do not plan on them being together past the age of 1 year, one is my sons and he will be taking the dog with him in about 5-6 months. We would like them trained together so they will be used to having another dog at their side.Thank you

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Vulcan Red Warlock


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Vince P.
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posted November 16, 2001 09:27 AM     Profile for Vince P.   Email Vince P.     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I would not recommend this. While I have seen this done with two dogs responding to different languages it is very awkward and counterproductive. One should be kenneled while the other trained.
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redwarlock
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posted November 16, 2001 06:44 PM     Profile for redwarlock   Email redwarlock     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
For the past two months they have been working well side by side, by this I mean my son handles one and I the other. They are in sight of each other and actually seem to learn from the other. I know I have a dominent one but the one who is less dominent seems to be teaching the other. It seems that once they are seperated they are to nervous and are busy looking for the other brother. They have uncles who work together,and so far are doing well. I guess as long as they are working well together I will keep this up, I am sure that when I come across a problem I will separate the two. They heel very well together,and sit and stay pretty good for their age. The lesson I would like to teach next is for them to stay alert to danger while sitting.
Thanks for the advice, keep it coming.

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Vulcan Red Warlock


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DesertThunderK9
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posted November 16, 2001 06:57 PM     Profile for DesertThunderK9   Email DesertThunderK9     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by redwarlock:
It seems that once they are seperated they are to nervous and are busy looking for the other brother.


This is exactly the problem Vince was trying to warn you about. They are overbonding and becoming *doggy*. I'm not clear on your future training plans for these 2?
Are these dogs littermates? It's never a good plan to raise littermates together, breeders ought to know better.
You are getting some good advice, but it seems as if you're mind is made up.

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Joy Tiz, MS, JD
www.DesertThunderK9.com
*Godspeed, Operation Enduring Freedom!*


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redwarlock
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posted November 16, 2001 07:05 PM     Profile for redwarlock   Email redwarlock     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I am sorry, my mind is not made up yet, I am considering the good advice, I am merely mentioning thta I have not seen any evidence of bad behavior. Yes they are litter mates, they are the first and second born. I also mentioned that I have noticed that their uncles work well together. Keep sending advice, like it is said, I use the good and not the bad. I guess I was waiting for more info. Thank you

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Vulcan Red Warlock


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Chuck F.
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posted November 16, 2001 07:07 PM     Profile for Chuck F.   Email Chuck F.     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
When you say that when they are seperated they loose concentration and become nervous looking for each other it is because they are taking their cues from each other more than you. By raising them together they will become to "doggy". This is why its tough to argue with people like Ed who have trained dogs for years and years. The dogs need to respond to what you say not to what the other is doing. Thats why its better to raise and train them seperately. I agree that when these dogs mature you may have problems. Don't just take my word, listen to those who REALLY know what the deal is.
Posts: 226 | From: Newton NJ | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Richard Cannon
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posted November 16, 2001 07:44 PM     Profile for Richard Cannon   Email Richard Cannon     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
redwarlock,

"The lesson I would like to teach next is for them to stay alert to danger while sitting."

At this point these puppies should not be alert for danger. They should be looking to you for direction and should not be exposed to "danger" for training. Don't put the cart before the horse. Teach the obedience and get that SOLID and let them grow up before trying any stress based training. At this point some basic prey work is ok, but the dog should not be looking for danger. They should only be having positive experiences.


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redwarlock
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posted November 16, 2001 07:44 PM     Profile for redwarlock   Email redwarlock     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Okay, I will start the training seperatly, now does this mean they are to always be apart at this age, they are kenneled together at night. Is this all right or are you saying that they should be totally and completly seperated?

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Vulcan Red Warlock


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Chuck F.
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posted November 16, 2001 07:57 PM     Profile for Chuck F.   Email Chuck F.     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Sorry folks. Joy's and my posts must have gone up at the same time. Thats why my post uses the same term "doggy." It appears that I was just repeating the same thing.
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Jody
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posted November 17, 2001 08:35 AM     Profile for Jody   Email Jody     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
You tell us that the pups get nervous when you separate them... this is one the biggest problem you will run into.. when you raise 2 pups together..no matter what the breed..you end up with a leader and a follower. The dogs will never reach thier full potential like this.. I would separate them at night also.. I would give them some play time together..but not all day. If they are nervous now when you separate them.. they will be basket cases in another 5 to 6 months. Good luck with your pups...

Jody


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DesertThunderK9
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posted November 17, 2001 09:22 AM     Profile for DesertThunderK9   Email DesertThunderK9     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Chuck,
You know what they say about great minds and all
*Doggy* is the only word that describes it. Consider that we're asking our dogs to accept a strange species (humans) as pack members, that requires a bit of doing, altho domestic dogs are genetically equipped to make such a transition fairly easily. W/littermates, you have 2 dogs who have been together since the moment of birth. They spend all of their time together. Why should they accept humans into their pack? And why should they be willing to accept leadership from such an outsider?
These 2 sound like every pair of littermates I've ever had in for training, they are overbonded and obessed w/each other, which is why they come unhinged when they are separated. This is seriously limiting their potential in any type of training. If you are serious about training, separate them all the time. Perhaps a few play breaks together, but no more than that.
Next, pls find a good trainer to work with. This notion of the Dual Dobe Puppies looking for danger makes no sense. They are much too young and have no solid foundation for that type of work.

--------------------

Joy Tiz, MS, JD
www.DesertThunderK9.com
*Godspeed, Operation Enduring Freedom!*


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redwarlock
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posted November 17, 2001 10:47 AM     Profile for redwarlock   Email redwarlock     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Thanks for the info, I will get right on it. The word "danger" was the wrong word to use, I meant, how do I get them to stay focused while in the heel position?

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Vulcan Red Warlock


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Richard Cannon
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posted November 17, 2001 01:03 PM     Profile for Richard Cannon   Email Richard Cannon     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Stay focused on what? They should be focused on you. It sounds like they are focused on each other. Training seperately will help, using a reward can help (treat, ball) and rewarding for them focusing on you will help.
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Ed Frawely
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posted December 26, 2001 09:52 AM       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
What the hell is going on here. I have heard enough bad advise to last a life time. If I keep getting the same crap on this message board I will have to shut it don. You people are way out of date on your training.
Please check out some of my videos. But please dont give out bad advise on my forum. Someone could get hurt and i do not want to be responsible. Get a clue people and some dog experience yourself instead of pretending to be dog trainers. You all could learn alot from me if you will just loisten more and talk less.
Ed Frawely

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Ed Frawley
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posted December 26, 2001 10:16 AM     Profile for Ed Frawley   Email Ed Frawley     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The above post was not done by me - it is being done by a very sick disturbed and
pitiful individual who goes on lists like this and posts under other peoples names.

My member number on my own list is not 1061 as this persons is.

If anyone would like the name of this individual they can contact me on a private email.


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