The World Famous Frawley Castle Website

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The WFFCW was created August 5, 2001 :: we're 16 YEARS OLD!

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"It's like a nightmare, isn't it?  It just keeps getting worse and worse." .... Keith McCready, in "The Color of Money"

"The only vaccine powerful enough to inoculate you from lies is the truth." .... Al Franken, famous author

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WHAT IS THIS WEBSITE ABOUT?  Some of this is a personal website containing REBUTTAL, REPLY, and COMMENT to (primarily) public statements and accusations made by various self proclaimed "internet dog training experts".  The majority of the statements and accusations are FALSE, and refer to me, personally.  The nucleus of this website is based on verbatim quotes of public messages, most of which are archived with their respective lists.  Unless noted, nothing has been altered, other than formatting line length to screen width and changing the font style.  Other parts of this site contain OPINIONS, HUMOR, PARODY, COMEDY, and SARCASM which reflect my own personal sense of humor and viewpoints.  The First Amendment of the Constitution adequately, particularly, and specifically provides these rights.  This site is for educational and entertainment purposes.  This is emphatically not a "hate" site.  There is no hate, and never was.  Profanity is kept to a minimum, but it does exist.  If this website seems offensive to you, in any way, please leave now.  Please do not subject yourself to being offended.

TO THOSE IN FEAR OF THIS WEBSITE:  Websites can be terrifying places.  If you're afraid, we'll never understand why, but what can WE do?  You're allowed to be frightened of webpages, or anything else.  This website contains NO THREATS of any nature - no direct, indirect, implied, supplied, or personified threats - it never did and never will.  There is a lot of SARCASM here.  If you're afraid, our heart goes out to you - we don't WANT you to be afraid.  We want you to get help.  Dial 911, and scream for help.  If you wind up in a straight jacket, that's your problem.  If you don't, that's your problem, too.

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Frawley's Fred Hassen Attack

 

Steve's message to LEERKOPF Frawley

Frawley's text is RED

Steve Leigh's text is BLUE


Frawley Attacks Fred Hassen:

Reply-To: <frawley@leerburg.com>
From: "Ed Frawley" <frawley@leerburg.com>
To: <Sitmeanssit@AOL.COM>
Subject:
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:01:47 -0600

Fred,

I was sent a copy of a post that you sent to the Protection Dog List in which you decided to post Steve Leigh's web site on me. Maybe you feel this is funny. I do not.

Anyone can disagree on different aspects of dog training. In fact it's pretty hard to get two experienced trainers to agree on dog training. In these cases normal people "agree to disagree". Leigh chose to make this into a personal insulting attack. If this is the kind of person you wish your name associated with then so be it.

I have added a section on my web site for people to post their opinions on you and your seminars. As of this morning my list has 913 registered members. It went on line 3 1/2 months ago. I have also removed you name from the discussion board. If you wish to play with Leigh then I suggest you and he start your own board and see how many people come.

Ed Frawley

As anyone can see, Frawley can dish it out just fine, but can't take it when somebody gives it back.  I started a website, and it looks like plenty of people are visiting.   

Above, Frawley accuses ME of making "this into a personal insulting attack". 

But as Frawley's messages to me show, HE'S the one calling ME ..... "motherfucker, redneck, asshole, slimy like cocksucker, someone who likes little boys".  This began in August, months before these messages to Fred.

Excuse me .... WHO made the personal attacks?   

I don't believe in taking too much shit without giving some back.  That's the way it is.  I believe in standing up for myself.

Since I wrote this series of webpages, our pages have been read OVER ONE MILLION TIMES.  A whole lot of people are laughing at all this, and plenty of them now get to see some REAL psychotic Frawley antics.

Notice that Frawley "doesn't think it's funny" .... Why not?  That's EXACTLY what it is!  The Frawley pages only illustrate what an absolute IDIOT Frawley really is .... and his own messages reconfirm it, over and over and over again.

Exactly like Frawley threatened me, he threatens Fred Hassen .... he's "added a section" to his "web board" so he can ridicule and badmouth Fred behind his back.  Exactly like his tactics with me, he strokes his own ego by bragging about the zillions of "registered members", as if anybody actually gives a shit. 

Frawley capitalizes on people who are ignorant of dogs, training, sports, and anything connected.  He can't peddle his bullshit to real, full time, professional trainers - they don't want to hear it.

Frawley yipyaps about "agree to disagree", and "normal people".  His "normal people" messages on this page (and others) indicate EXACTLY how "normal" he is. 

The way this works, Frawley is "normal" and he "agrees to disagree" by calling me a "motherfucker" and a "slimy like cocksucker".  It's OK for Frawley to write that way, but nobody else is allowed.  He "doesn't think it's funny" that I wrote up this website showing how little Frawley really knows.

He claims "it's hard to get two experienced trainers ....." - but the very basis for this series of pages is that

FRAWLEY IS NOT AN EXPERIENCED TRAINER

He has ZERO experience with table training, yet he holds himself up as an "EXPERT" with tables, and writes articles about them.  He freely condemns and accuses, but he doesn't actually KNOW a damn thing about them.  He's never SEEN tables - this is proven by his own description of them.  He can't stand it when somebody (me, for example) challenges every lie and bullshit statement that he wrote, so he freaks out and goes psycho, calling me names.

When you read this, Frawley - and everybody knows you will - remember some facts.  Plenty of us were training dogs in the 70s, without you or your goofy ideas - and we're still earning a living from it today.  Some of us see right through your "expert" bullshit, and realize there's nothing but a mouthy, ego bloated, yipyapping psychopath in there.  Your kiddy vidz don't mean a thing to us, your "approval" of what or how we do things is worthless, your moronic threats about "If you want your name listed in the next printing of my catalog - 45,000 copies will be printed go ahead and screw with my copyright articles." ...... (THAT was a lie, too, wasn't it?) are worthless.  Essentially Frawley, you represent "nothing" to a whole LOT of people.  Absolutely NOTHING.

More Psycho Frawley, again attacking Fred Hassen:

Return-Path: <frawley@leerburg.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:39:45 -0600
From: "Ed Frawley" <frawley@leerburg.com>
To: <Sitmeanssit@AOL.COM>
Reply-To: <frawley@leerburg.com>
Subject: FW:

Fred

Dont worry about any further emails fro me. I could give a shit about you.

Let me refresh your memory. Here is your post and it is not done in response to any photo of table training. So lets not bull shirt one another. You made this post because you thought it was cute to do so.  Being cute can come back and bite you in the ass.

You are correct about my web board. It very well will not make any difference that I removed you from the board. You have your business and I have mine. You have your Level 4 dealership and I have my 41,000 people on my mailing list and a web site that gets 500 to 1000 hits per day. I see no reason in giving one cent of promotion to someone who does what you did on this list. Thats why you are off the board. I will ask Donn Yarnell to post to the section on the board where people comment on your schools. He should have something interesting to say.

Ed Frawley

Frawley's right on the border ..... much more stress, he's gonna overdose or something.  First he's whining and moaning because Fred mentioned a page that I wrote about Frawley "the expert" and table training.  Next thing you know, "I could give a shit about you." 

Then why bother writing any of this trash in the first place?  The answer is easy:  Frawley thrives on badmouthing people.  Obviously, his threats to Fred didn't get the desired results, so Frawley tries to jump up a notch or two.  Now he's gonna get Don Yarnell to ridicule Fred (behind his back, of course) and then he'll feel much better.

I've got news for Frawley, Yarnell, and anybody else who plays Follow-The-Frawley.  None of 'em will have any effect at all on anybody's future in dog training.  That goes triple for Voodoo Louie Castle - another loser with a mouth the size of Texas.  Frawley is delusional about how much control and influence he wields in the world of dog training.  His 41,000 catalogs have gone to his head.

Frawley's problem - besides always looking for conflict - is that he can't recognize.  He can't realize and accept that lots of people are NOT intimidated by his bullshit and lies.  He's stupid enough to look for fights with guys that will happily confront his stupidity, and fight back, showing what an idiot he is.  But he keeps on and on, he never quits.  Just like Voodoo Louie.

Is he done yet?  NO WAY!

Look below .... Frawley sends approximately the same message, a day later, but using a different name.  Fred blocked Frawley's address (frawley@leerburg.com) so Ed had to get in the last word .... and became edf@leerburg.com to do it.  Above he says "don't bull shirt me" - and doesn't bother fixing it below, although he's edited a lot of other parts.  But he sure does escalate the threats!

Return-Path: <edf@leerburg.com>
Reply-To: <edf@leerburg.com>
From: "Ed Frawley" <edf@leerburg.com>
To: <sitmeanssit@aol.com>
Subject:
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 06:17:52 -0600

Fred

Don't worry about blocking this email address - I have no interest in emailing you again.

Let me refresh your memory. Here is your post and it is not done in response to any photo of table training. So don't try and bull shirt me. You made this Protection dog post because you thought it was cute to do so.  Being cute can sometimes comes back and bites you in the ass. That's what is going to happen here.

You are correct about my web board. It very well will not make any difference that I removed you from the board. You have your business and I have mine. You have your Level 4 dealership and I have my 41,000 people on my mailing list and a web site that gets 500 to 1000 hits per day. You sell your electric collars and I sell training videos to police officers. I see no reason in giving one cent of promotion to someone does what you did on this list.

I will ask Donn Yarnell (and a few others) to write a little piece on what he thinks of you and your police Service Seminars.

Ed Frawley

You gotta love these intimidating messages.  Frawley's gonna get Yarnell (and a few others) to "write a little piece".  It'll be a "little piece of shit", because one of Frawley's puppets will help Frawley "get even" - by badmouthing somebody behind their back.  Just like Frawley's bullshit messages about table training, just like Frawley's moron "article" about table training.  It's all about badmouthing somebody - it's not about facts.  When you got no facts, you got no facts.  Frawley would starve himself for a week before he'd miss an opportunity to discredit somebody.

Frawley is deluding himself (lying) again, claiming that his 41,000 customers are police officers.  It's amazing how Frawley continually seeks out conflict, loves threatening people with the terrible things he thinks he can do to them, and just never seems able to do it himself, without assistance.  He always needs support, help from somebody else, to hold people up for ridicule.  Just exactly like the world famous legend, Voodoo Louie Castle, the K9 Martyr.  If you've somehow missed the link to Voodoo Louie Castle's Tribute Page, just click right here.  Voodoo Louie is in a class of his own.

Below:  Frawley can't live without badmouthing and discrediting Fred.  So he writes "a little piece", and belittles Fred behind his back.  But he needs help from his LEERKOPF™ puppets.  I highlighted some interesting points. 

Steve's comments are BLUE 

 
  next oldest topicnext newest topic
 
 

»  Leerburg Discussion Board   » Comments on Trainers Who Give Seminars   » Fred Hassen   » Fred Hassen Poli9ce K9 Seminars 
 
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  HOLD ON! What about that fraudulent COPYRIGHT?  
 
 
Author  Topic: Fred Hassen Poli9ce K9 Seminars
 
Ed Frawley 
Administrator 
Member # 2 
posted December 11, 2001 10:41 PM Profile for Ed Frawley Email Ed FrawleySend New Private MessageEdit/Delete PostReply With Quote

I will begin by saying that I have not been to a Fed Hassen police K9 seminar.

And I bet Fred hasn't been to a Frawley seminar, either.

I will follow that by saying I would have to be down to the end of my eternal to-do list to ever consider going to one (and I have never seen the end of that list) 

Police K9 handlers need to step back and look at the qualifications of the people they chose to use as instructors in their seminars. No one has more of an open mind about dog training that I do -

Actually, no one has more of an EMPTY HEAD about dog training than you do, LEERKOPF™ Frawley.  Very few people are less qualified, either.

but with that said - there is no room for a civilian with NO LAW ENFORCEMENT experience training Police K9 deployment to cops. 

Civilians can train K9 officers basic dog obedience, some civilians can teach K9 officers S&R (but only the tracking aspect - not the tactics of hunting humans ). NO CIVILIAN (including Mr hassen) should be holding seminars teaching K9 deployment. 

I am sorry but I have gone into the woods at night to hunt for a guy wiht a gun and I would not choose a trainer whose claim to fame is that he knows how to train a dog with an electric collar tell me how to come home alive. 

I don't believe ONE WORD of this trash. 

Research indicates Frawley has never been a law enforcement officer. 

Research indicates Frawley entered but never finished police school. 

Research indicates Frawley was an honorary Reserve Deputy for a short time, for the sole purpose of searching vehicles for drugs.

Research indicates Frawley did not train the drug dog. 

It's highly doubtful Frawley was even permitted to carry a weapon.

It's far more doubtful that Frawley ever acted in the capacity of a real deputy, with power to arrest. 

Personally, I doubt Frawley has ever "gone into the woods at night to hunt for a guy with a gun". 

I think it's all a Frawley fantasy.  A make-believe "cop" - that wasn't a cop.   


Posts: 243 | From: | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged  << HEY!  The IP address is LOGGED!

 
Ed Frawley 
Administrator 
Member # 2 
posted December 15, 2001 12:35 PM Profile for Ed Frawley Email Ed FrawleySend New Private MessageEdit/Delete PostReply With Quote

I have never met Fred Hassen - don't really care to. 

I also cannot comment on his ability to obedience train a dog

Then shut up. 

The issues I have with Mr Hassen are the seminars he gives to law enforcement officers. He has never been a police officer and has no business telling police officers how to deploy a police dog. This is a dangerous business and there is no place for a civilian telling police officers how to go into harms way. 

I have also read the posts he made to this discusson board on the use of electric collars. I do not agree with what he has written here on collar training. 


Posts: 243 | From: | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged  << HEY!  The IP address is LOGGED!

 
Lou Castle 
Member 
Member # 131 

Member Rated:

posted December 17, 2001 10:23 PM  Profile for Lou CastleEmail Lou CastleSend New Private MessageEdit/Delete PostReply With Quote

quote:


Originally posted by rottnvegas:
I checked my E-mail today and Mr. Hassen wrote me a pointed message that said he would not be interested in training my dog due to the post I put up here on the Leerburg web sit. I find this both insulting and unfounded. 


ROFL. Beware the trainer who is insulted when you try and check his references or learn more about him. 

I'm in Las Vegas for a couple of days doing some training with Donn Yarnall and the Las Vegas Marshall's Office.

What are you doing, Louie?  Hanging around?  Scooping up dog shit?  Maybe you could define "doing some training"?

Why don't you come out and watch some training.

Yarnell's video says more than a million words about "training" the Marshal's dogs. 

I'll send you my cell phone via private email so we can set it up. 

Regards, 

Lou Castle, Los Angeles, CA
(UnclLou@aol.com) 

-------------------- 

Regards 

Lou Castle, Los Angeles, CA
(Uncllou@aol.com) 


Posts: 109 | From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged  << HEY!  The IP address is LOGGED!

 
rottnvegas 
Junior Member 
Member # 976 

Member Rated:

posted December 23, 2001 11:53 AM Profile for rottnvegas Email rottnvegasEdit/Delete PostReply With Quote

Thanks Lou, it worked just fine. That Fred is such a sack of you know what. When he is not lying, he is lying. Is that possible? Well, with Fred, I think it is. 

-------------------- 

Joe Noble 


Posts: 15 | From: Nevada | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged  << HEY!  The IP address is LOGGED!

 
Lou Castle 
Member 
Member # 131 

Member Rated:

posted December 25, 2001 10:46 PM Profile for Lou Castle Email Lou CastleSend New Private MessageEdit/Delete PostReply With Quote

Thomas Barriano wrote: How about signing your posts? 

Thomas is right Joe. You should sign your posts, but that’s where his “being right” comes to an abrupt halt. 

Thomas Barriano wrote: Although Lou seems to know who you are? It is obvious from the posts here and on the Malinois Board that you were never serious about training with Fred but were only looking to bash. 

LC: If you weren’t blinded by your own prejudices Thomas, you’d recognize that Joe only wanted to get some information about a trainer that he was thinking of hiring to train his dog. That’s a perfectly reasonable ( and smart) thing to do. Fred’s response to that, in spite of his constant refrain that he encourages people to compare methods and trainers, was to get pissy and tell Joe that he didn’t want to work with him. Then, mostly on the Mal Bulletin Board where Fred told a long string of lies trying to make himself look good. Joe obviously isn’t one to back down just because he’s taking flak and he didn’t. He stepped up and told the truth over the top of Fred’s constant refrain of lies. Those lies included what happened at the demo that one of Fred’s employees did, although Fred wasn’t there, so he has no idea what happened. There were lots more lies but the important thing is that Fred has always had a problem with the truth. 

LC: Like most conversations that anyone has with Fred, unless you swallow his BS, it quickly went downhill, with Fred, as usual, having trouble recognizing the truth. Fred constantly makes comments such as that he encourages people to make comparisons but when someone does, as did Joe, he rejects their business. Fred likes to say that he will train someone who doesn’t want to use an Ecollar but when Joe asked him what percentage of his business leash work was, Fred refused to answer. Fred rarely answers any questions directly. When he did recently on the Mal Bulletin Board lots of people pointed out how little he actually knows about dog training. 

LC: Fred also likes to tell everyone that he doesn’t sell an Ecollar unless he also does the training. But he conveniently forgets that on one list he offered to sell Ecollars at a discount to the other members of that list. He sold at least one collar there that didn’t include training. 

LC: There really isn’t much money in training SAR or dogs for police service but as Kevin Sheldahl pointed out recently, Fred only does it for the prestige and air of credibility it brings. 

LC: I went to Las Vegas several months ago to see what Fred does and then went to a seminar he put on in Los Angeles. Now that I've seen it firsthand, I can comment on it. You can see those comments if you follow the link, below. That discussion gets a bit testy at times and it goes on an on, but it gives an excellent view of Fred and his work AND his inability (or lack of desire) to answer a direct question directly. It really gets interesting when Donn Yarnall jumps in with the truth to cover more of Fred's lies. 

LC: Fred knows nothing about drives, scent work or what makes a dog do what dogs do. He is only able to force a dog to do things that he can see, such as OB. In one recent post he described how he turned a dog to keep him facing a decoy who was moving in a circle around him. He said that this demonstrates how the dog is “focussed” on the decoy. ROFL. What it really demonstrates is that Fred is capable of “trick training” forcing the dog to face the decoy, no matter where he’s focussed. (Fred’s dogs are focussed on him, awaiting the next command, not on a decoy, not on a scent problem, not on anything, but Fred.) In fact just about all of his training consists of tricks. That’s fine for training pets, but he shouldn’t be anywhere near a working dog, especially one that needs to use his nose. 

LC: The discussion between Donn, Fred and I (and a few others) can be found at 
http://www.leerburg.c>> om/cgi-bin/UBB/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=23&t=000001&p=

Thomas Barriano wrote: while we are talking about liars, ask your new found? buddy Lou "Mr Truth and Integrity" Castle why he was thrown off the e-dog list again after her tried to assume a fake identiy?

Whoops.  Voodoo Louie was thrown off a mail group and joined again - with a fake identity!  "Mr. Truth and Integrity" - the HONEST cop!  

LC: Joe doesn’t have to ask Thomas. I’ll answer your question but I’m wondering why you didn’t ask me directly? LOL I wanted to see the lies that were being told about me to the remaining list members

Now THAT'S some truth and integrity.  You can TRY to justify anything, can't you Voodoo?

after Eric, the moderator, who runs the list like a Nazi, removed me a while ago. That occurred in spite of his word that he wouldn’t give me the satisfaction of doing so. Eric has trouble keeping his word or telling the truth. Once he stopped a conversation because it MIGHT get heated. That list is the LAST place anyone should go if they want to learn about Ecollars. The list is composed of either irrational people like Thomas here, Steve Leigh, Fred and his clones, a VERY few decent people and lots of people who lurk for fear of incurring the wrath of any of those people. If anyone does join that list note that the archives are incomplete. The list moderator says that’s because he’ removed the “chatty” posts but he’s a liar. He’s completely removed just about everything I wrote because I had the nerve to confront Fred about his methods. In case you couldn’t tell, the list moderator is a Fred clone.

So let's get down to the facts.  You got thrown off a list, Louie.  You resubscribed under a fake name.  All your yapping bullshit doesn't change the ONE fact that's important: YOU ARE A FUCKING LIAR, LOUIE.  You had to LIE to sneak back onto a message list with a FAKE NAME.  Being thrown off didn't suit your agenda, Louie?  So LYING about your name is "justifiable"?   

LC: That list was so bad that Paula Lind, who was the co–moderator left and formed her own list. If you want to join a decent Ecollar list that encourages rather than discourages conversation go to 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ecollar_Dog_Training_Plus/join

LC: That list is a bit slow right now because it’s so new. Be careful because there are two Ecollar lists on Yahoo. One is great and the other is worthless. 

Thomas Barriano wrote: Actions speak louder than words. Like my Grandpappy used to say, when you point a finger at someone else, the other three are pointing back at you :-) 

LC: ROFL. Looks like you’re doing the finger pointing here Thomas. Go tell Grandpappy. ROFL.

ROFL?  Thomas' Grandpappy would have snapped your lying NECK, Voodoo. 

paul wootton wrote: The issues I have with Mr Hassen are the seminars he gives to law enforcement officers. He has never been a police officer and has no business telling police officers how to deploy a police dog. This is a dangerous business and there is no place for a civilian telling police officers how to go into harms way. 

LC: Paul, Fred will say that he doesn’t tell police officers how to deploy their dogs and perhaps that’s true. He says all that he does is show them how to get control. But a read of the thread elsewhere on this board will show what he did to Cesar, a LV Marshall’s K9 that he worked with briefly. He screwed up the dog so badly that the dog refused to leave the handler’s side. The handler finally had to be ordered by his Chief NOT to train with Fred anymore. 

LC: Perhaps Fred can explain why he nearly always works Maddy with a muzzle on? Or perhaps he can tell us of why Maddy attacked a small dog at a coffee shop he used to frequent? Isn’t this dog under control? Perhaps Fred can tell us why the local police departments in his area don't use his methods. 

-------------------- 

Regards 

Lou Castle, Los Angeles, CA
(Uncllou@aol.com) 


Posts: 109 | From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged  << HEY!  The IP address is LOGGED!

 
Lou Castle 
Member 
Member # 131 

Member Rated:

posted December 26, 2001 11:33 AM Profile for Lou Castle Email Lou CastleSend New Private MessageEdit/Delete PostReply With Quote

Thomas Barriano wrote: So you admit you subscribed to the E-dog list under a faked identity, to see if anyone was talking about you? So when someone replies on this list as Ed Frawley 1061 they are a sick individual etc. etc but if YOU do it on another list it is OK?

That's the bottom line.  Voodoo Louie does what he wants, when he wants.  Anything's OK for Voodoo Louie. 

LC: I’ve only seen one of the “Ed Frawley 1061” posts. It’s typical of the stuff that one psychotic person who is obsessed with Ed, Donn and I writes when he uses phony names. Sounds like one of your buddies or maybe even you; perhaps a table trainer that we all know? But in any case the 3–4 posts I wrote on that list were innocuous, not nasty and hate–filled as is #1061.

Voodoo Louie gets THROWN off a list, resubscribes under a fake name, gets thrown out AGAIN, then tries to JUSTIFY his lies.  See?  It's OK for Voodoo Louie to do these kinds of things.  He can come up with a million excuses - and never answer the QUESTION.  He just EVADES and tries to divert your attention. 

Thomas Barriano wrote: Tell us all that Joe Noble has never met or had email correspondance with you or Donn or Ed before he contacted Fred Hassen's people to arrange for a demo? 

LC: The first that Donn or I heard of Joe was when he popped up here, asking for information about Fred. Notice that neither Donn nor I said a word about Fred, even though we both had VERY strong opinions about him until Fred told Joe that he wasn’t interested in working with him. Try to hold your paranoia in check Thomas. 

-------------------- 

Regards 

Lou Castle, Los Angeles, CA
(Uncllou@aol.com) 


Posts: 109 | From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged  << HEY!  The IP address is LOGGED!

 
Lou Castle 
Member 
Member # 131 

Member Rated:

posted December 27, 2001 12:33 PM Profile for Lou Castle Email Lou CastleSend New Private MessageEdit/Delete PostReply With Quote

Thomas Barriano wrote: Let's straighten up this thing about "buddies". I met Fred Hassen once…I don't work for him, get paid by him or have any contact with him, offline. 

LC: Let’s face it Thomas you’re one of his boosters who pop up when he can’t or won’t. You don’t need to be paid by him to do that. 

Thomas Barriano wrote: I've never met Steve Leigh 

LC: Another booster. Anyone who aligns himself with Steve is of the same character that he is. “Birds of a feather.” 

Thomas Barriano wrote: I do however think his Frawley/Castle website is one of the funniest things on the Web 

LC: It’s obvious that you’ve never made the phone call that I request that people make to my department to verify a few facts. Steve’s website makes all sorts of false allegations about me, Ed and Donn that can easily be knocked into the toilet, where they belong, by simply making that phone call.

Hold on there, Voodoo.  What would a call to your department have to do with LEERKOPF Frawley or Yarnell?  What is YOUR department going to say about people who they know nothing about, and aren't associated with YOUR department at all? 

But why should you let the facts interfere with your ability to make a decision? You’re name calling of me on the Edog list clearly shows what kind of a person you are. And the fact that you’ve adopted Steve’s “pet name” drives that home. 

Thomas Barriano wrote: I've never referred to either Fred or Steve as "an Eagle, pestered by a Gnat" or something to that effect like Donn Y said about you recently. 

LC: I’d suggest a course in critical reading Thomas. Donn was talking about unimportant people pestering him. He wasn’t talking about me. ROFL. Everyone on this board knows of Donn’s qualifications and mine. And yours as well. LOL 

Thomas Barriano wrote: I didn't hype Fred's seminars, as the best thing since sex, like you did with Donn Y's Guidance System Video. 

LC: Hardly the best thing since sex Thomas. But as far as dog training videos go, it’s pretty damn good. We had a conversation about it but you were too thick to learn anything from either the video or my details explanation of it. 

Thomas Barriano wrote: Your stated goal, has been to shut down the E-dog list. Your claim that you "just wanted to see what they were saying about you" and that your "Sam" posts were "innocent and innoculous " is delusional, self serving BS

When Voodoo Louie is thrown off a list it doesn't really MEAN he's been thrown off a list.  Voodoo can sneak back on and make EXCUSES about moderators - and that justifies everything.  In HIS insane, delusional mind, anyway.

LC: The Edog list is run by a moderator who is a “book burner” at best! Just like any other dictator he molds the words of others to suit his own needs. He’s “edited” the archives so that anything that he disagrees with has been removed. He, like you Thomas, is a Fred booster. That means that no one is allowed to disagree with Fred. That’s the real reason I was removed.

Voodoo - the REAL reason you were removed is RIGHT HERE.  Lie your way out of that, Voodoo-boy.

And the real reason that you keep after me. Don’t think it isn’t obvious. 

Thomas Barriano wrote: Now lets get to the thing that started this whole situation: Your (and others) belief that Fred shouldn't be doing Police Seminars because he isn't a cop. 

LC: BULLSHIT. Thomas you haven’t read anything that I’ve written except to fog it through your own desires and perception. I’ve NEVER said that because Fred isn’t a cop he shouldn’t be teaching cops. Others HAVE said that but I’ve never made such a statement. 

LC: Fred shouldn’t be teaching SAR or police dogs because he doesn’t even have a clue about drives or what makes dogs do what dogs do. He also know nothing of scentwork. He’s told me several times that he only believes in one drive, “The do it when I say do it drive.” That may be fine for competition dogs that are pattern trained (which BTW is not EVERY competition dog) but it doesn’t work for dogs that use their noses for a living. If you’ll notice, Fred’s claim to fame is an OB title, more pattern training. I’m not going to go back to square one with this but suffice it to say that Fred’s methods can destroy the scent finding ability of a dog doing difficult scent work. He wouldn’t know anything about that because he has never done difficult scent work. And so, apparently neither have you. 

Thomas Barriano wrote: We don't even have to go to the obvious fact, that both you and Donn are in competetion with Fred for the lucrative K9 Training Seminar market. 

LC: ROFL. It’s always entertaining when someone exposes his ignorance through his own writings. Thomas the “lucrative K9 Training Seminar market” that you refer to is ANYTHING but lucrative. Much of the work is done for free as long as expenses are covered. I’ve volunteered, and so have dozens of others, at quite a few seminars. I LOSE money at those. I have to burn my own vacation time and board my dogs while I’m gone. Those expenses aren't covered. I’m lucky to break even when I do get paid. Ain’t NOBODY getting rich by doing SAR or PSD seminars. I do it for the feedback I get from those who participate. I do it for the phone calls, private letters and emails I get from people who have put the training to work and achieved some success. It’s a labor of love, hardly a get–rich–quick–scheme. Private trainers like to work with police or SAR because it adds to their prestige and credibility to have it on their resume. Of course some are driven by their innate desire to help but that’s not, and never has been, Fred’s motivation. He’s a salesman pure and simple. Witness his refusal to answer even the most basic of questions on this or any other board. Why should he, he’s not getting paid? The REAL money in dog training is in pet dog work. Ask Fred why he used to habitually wear a Las Vegas Metro K9 (the local Police Department) hat to all of his house calls? 

LC: There are MILLIONS of pets in this country. There are only a few hundred thousand SAR and PSD’s. Donn and I aren’t even interested in The REAL Money except for a very few exceptions and those are friends or friends of friends. I’ve worked with hundreds of SAR and PSD handlers. I’ve got around 15 private clients, if that. It’s pretty obvious where my sympathies lie. I’m headed out tonight to do some training with three local departments. Guess how much I’ll be paid. If I’m lucky, they’ll buy me dinner. That should just about cover my gas. Lucrative!!! Don’t make me laugh Thomas. 

Thomas Barriano wrote: I don't speak for Fred, but he doesn't claim to be a cop or know any thing about cop stuff. He has never told any cop, how to deploy his dog or anything about cop >> tactics. He knows and teaches E-collars. 

LC: Well, Thomas guess what; you ARE speaking for Fred right here. And since you aren’t present at his seminars, you don’t have a clue as to what Fred is or isn’t saying to the officers at his seminars. I know at least two officers who took Fred’s methods to use on their own dogs. One dog began to balk so badly that he refused to leave his handler’s side. Another dog wouldn’t stay on a bite for more than a few seconds. He’d drop off and run to his handler, anticipating a correction. So Fred really doesn’t have to say a word about police work to ruin a dog with his seminars. So even if he doesn’t tell police officers how to deploy, he's capable of doing damage. 

Thomas Barriano wrote: If the cops that attend his seminars, weren't learning something, they could use, they would stop going? 

LC: How many officers do you know of who have attended more than one of his seminars? At the Tucson Seminar that Fred boasts of quite a bit, do you know that NOT ONE handler (and this was not the first time that they’d seen Fred or his methods) volunteered to work their dogs? Do you know that they had to obtain some dogs from the local pound so that Fred could demonstrate what he does? Fred continually mentions ONE police officer that has fallen for his nonsense. ONE. Donn or I could supply you with dozens of names of K9 officers that we’ve worked with. But we’re not in the sales business so we don’t need to. Also keep in mind that I’m not training dogs full time. When I’m at work I’m a police officer, not a full time dog trainer, like Fred. Donn has retired now but he still picks and chooses how far he goes and for how long, based on spending time with his kids. 

Thomas Barriano wrote: There are more civilians training (not handling) K9's than cops. Every Schutzhund Club or Seminar I've been to, has had working K9 officers there. 

LC: Do you think that a K9 handler going to a SchH club and giving his dog a few bites or working OB or doing some obstacles constitutes "civilians doing police dog training? If so you’re stupider than I thought. I used to attend one of those sessions quite regularly when I was a handler. But the club trainer would NEVER have the temerity to say that he was doing any police dog training. There’s obviously some overlap between what PSD’s do and what sport dogs do. But for you to think that because a SchH decoy takes a bite that he’s competent to train a PSD is beyond ludicrous. 

Thomas Barriano wrote: IMHO, cops (K9 and others) are like the rest of us, they learn from where ever they can, they take the information that is applicable and leave the rest. 

LC: I agree. But Fred methods can and have caused damage to the working ability of PSD’s. He should stick to making pets recall to their owners. You can keep on worshipping at the Fred altar if you wish, and you probably will, but you really should have some idea of what you’re talking about before you shoot off your mouth. It would really make it more interesting. 

LC: BTW thanks to Kelly and Paul for their kind words and support. 

-------------------- 

Regards 

Lou Castle, Los Angeles, CA
(Uncllou@aol.com) 


Posts: 109 | From: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged  << HEY!  The IP address is LOGGED!

 
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Here's Frawley - on his own home ground, "his web board" - badmouthing at his best.  Belittling and discrediting is what Frawley specializes in, just like his puppet/prostitute pals, Voodoo Louie Castle, Don Yarnell, and super-trainer, Kevin Shelldish or whatever his name is. 

Here is Frawley PIMPING Voodoo Louie, getting Louie to do his dirty work.  Discredit, badmouth, defame.  All behind Fred's back.

I went to a Fred Hassen E-collar seminar in Brooksville, Florida.  I thought he put on a good seminar, he got plenty of work done, and the people seemed pleased.  Although Fred talks fast, nobody appeared to misunderstand him, or require repetition of his words.  One of my long-time clients went with me.  He and I understood Fred just fine. 

Now isn't it odd - the seminar was sponsored by the same woman who owns the Protection Dogs list.  It was held on her property.  Voodoo Louie did not conduct the seminar, Fred Hassen did.  Why in the world would the famous star of the PD-List, the world authority on E-collars, not conduct this seminar?

Frawley's never been to Fred Hassen's seminars, BUT HE KNOWS ALL ABOUT THEM.  Just like table training, Frawley is the expert.  He knows it ALL.

He states "there is no room for a civilian with NO LAW ENFORCEMENT experience training Police K9 deployment to cops."  However, it's done every day in cities all across America. 

To show what a lying hypocrite Frawley IS .... two trainers that Frawley calls acknowledged master trainers - Brian Mowrey and Stewart Hilliard - are civilians.  They're not police officers.  They regularly train law enforcement dogs with law enforcement officers, and Frawley praises them. 

Nobody ever mentioned "DEPLOYMENT" ..... that's Frawley's idiotic key word, nobody else's.

Tucson Police K9 had Fred Hassen as a guest speaker address hundreds of police officers at a seminar in Tucson last year.  Fred is a civilianWhy did Tucson PD do this?

Because obviously there is ROOM FOR A CIVILIAN WITH NO LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPERIENCE

That's why.  Frawley has mental problems understanding and accepting the facts.  The list of civilian trainers that work successfully with police dogs is absolutely staggering.  Tom Rose, Mike Rankin, Jerry Bradshaw, Joe Morris, are just a few examples, and there must be hundreds more.  Hell, I've even trained plenty of law enforcement dogs.  And I've never claimed to be a "master trainer".

GENE ENGLAND, the most competent dog trainer in the world, has trained HUNDREDS, probably THOUSANDS of police dogs.  He's a civilian, and dozens of police agencies from all across the country "have room" for him.  Gene literally IS a legend in the dog training world.  Care to challenge THAT, "Expert" Frawley?

Frawley's own cyberbuddy, Voodoo Louie Castle, knows who trains his department's dog.  Surprise!  He's Rodney Spicer, and he's a civilian.

"Expert Ed" dictates (above) what civilian trainers CAN train K9 officers, as if he's some kind of world authority.  But he's not. 

He's a freak who thrives on discrediting individuals that don't agree with him.  The more he badmouths, the happier he is.  He preys on beginners and ignorant people, and peddles his vidz-fer-kidz tapes.  He claims to have an open mind, that's bullshit.  "A mouthy psychotic" adequately describes Ed Frawley.  His constant backstabbing, badmouthing approach to "letting people know" is nothing but an outlet to satisfy Frawley's over aggressive, psychotic insecurities.  He writes his bullshit stories about subjects he has no knowledge of, and discredits anyone who doesn't agree with his outlook.  That's MY opinion!


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